Friday, February 10, 2012

Who Are All These Moderates??

  The topic of moderate Christians (theists) has been coming up pretty regularly on the Facebook page I help admin, with some pretty interesting takes on it.  A good deal of the religious posters are generally pretty pissed off by the lack of sensitivity and the level of blasphemy in some of the memes.  To be certain- the page is blatantly and obviously atheist in nature, no trickery or shenanigans to get the poor Christian just wandering the inter-webs caught in our trap [laughs deviously while my rubbing my hands together].  But the Christians being offended is by far not the shocker.  It seems as though there is a fairly adamant faction of non-believers, agnostics, skeptics, and atheists that are (to put it mildly) repulsed by the notion that religion is up for scrutiny.  Okay, I'll admit I'm relatively new to the party, but WHAT THE FUCK???

  Most of the arguments seem to focus on two themes- respect and tolerance.  As in I (we) owe the theist who arrives on the page respect, or that our content in general should not disrespect anybodies beliefs as these beliefs are very personal things.  I call bullshit. Your beliefs don't deserve the slightest amount of respect from me.  I've got a prewritten response I use when the subject of respecting other peoples beliefs come up. I've had to use it often over the last few days.  It goes like this-   Personally, I've have no respect for woman haters, child fuckers, honor killers, suicide bombers, genital mutilators, creationism pushers, and choice robbers.  If you're going to identify with the types, expect me to show you little respect.  If you are going to excuse or dismiss these abhorrent behaviors by simply telling me that you don't participate but argue that these perpetrators have some magical right to not be scrutinized, then I have little respect for you as well.

  My biggest issue with the "moderate" theist.  Their ability to blend in to the religion when it does good things, and disappear or defend it when some crazy shit happens.  Let's use Catholicism for instance.  A good, moderate catholic might feel that homosexuals are against gods will. But- who are they to say homosexual shouldn't be allowed to get married?  Seems pretty reasonable, right?  But when the Pope tells Africans who are living among the highest percentage of HIV infected people in the world, that condoms may make the epidemic worse?  The moderates either shrink into shadows (cuz that shits nutty, folks) or worse, scream out against the people calling the pope a fucking moron, exclaiming "People should be tolerant of other belief systems and show him some respect!"   Are you fucking serious?  Lets take a look at the born again Christians. Maybe a church runs a food kitchen for the homeless- pretty sweet! The moderate believer may volunteer 10, maybe 20 hours a month in the kitchen. I commend the effort, sincerely.  Now what about when a state tries to pass a bill allowing creationism to be taught alongside of evolution in a public school science class?  Those mean and nasty atheists are at it again, bringing up that 1st Amendment (by the way, I know- we have that thing all confused.)  Again, poof- where did all those moderates go??  Or- comments like "How dare we disrespect your creator, can't we be more tolerant of your batshit ideas?"  I could go on with examples, but if you're not seeing it now chances are more aren't going to help.

  I know these are generalizations, and that every person in every different religion may not act the same way  every time.  I don't know about you but I live in a world that starts with generalizations, and filters down further and further until I reach specifics.  Is your neighbor Judy, a moderate Mormon who was totally and outwardly against Prop 8 and the churches funding of the propaganda?  I don't know. If she did,  I'd give her a big "Hell yeah!"  I would still wonder why somebody who could reasonably conclude that it's none of the churches business, is still be involved in the church.

  There was a blog I read regarding the hard wiring of the brain in its early stages of development that disables some cognitive reasoning abilities.  This rewiring allows very intelligent people to be able to understand complex ideas, but also the ability to compartmentalize religious beliefs away from this ability. Imagine Albert Einstein really, truly, believing that if you stepped on a crack you would break his Momma's back.  There may very well be some correlation between indoctrination, and a moderates ability to defend his or her religion against scrutiny.

  So do me, and yourself a favor.  Start policing your own shit.  For all those "moderates" who claim they are the good ones and who are unjustly getting persecuted- reign in the nut jobs. Throw a fucking blanket party, and be done with it.  Either step the fuck up and say something or shut the fuck up when I do.  I'll give you my word on one thing.  When (and if ) you do, I'll gladly focus my attention on any one of the other interests I have. I am an anti-theist.  I'm also pretty much a humanist and I try to be realistic about the world around me.  You're not gonna catch me holding my breath waiting for you, the "moderate" believer to get your religions shit together.

13 comments:

  1. Awesome, Well said! (except for a few minor typos/errors..but I will still share because I agree with your pints whole heartedly !) Thanks.

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  2. I've been told I need a proof reader... the budgets a bit tight though! Thanks for the support!

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  3. I think I love you. :P

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  4. Hello Loren,
    I really enjoyed this because I have been struggling with this respect/tolerance idea for my whole life, but in the recent past, I've been acutely aware of my dilemma because a few of my co-workers and I were recently admonished at work for "talking about religion." The real reason was that our thoughts on the subject fall into the "con" category, and -evidently- one of my other co-workers is religious.
    So the question came up in my mind: should I just let it all go and be respectful/tolerant of my co-worker's moronic ideas about ghosts and whatnot or do I assert myself and my right to express my thoughts? I opted for the path of least resistance just as a matter of practicality (I was recently promoted, so I don't want them to regret that), but I think that in any other context, at this point in my life, I would not have.
    Many times in the past, I have just dropped the subject for fear of offending someone, but now I'm just sick of that shit. If these hypothetical people want to conflate my attack on their silly belief as an attack on them, personally (which they always seem to do), that's their fucking problem. When I have decided to pursue the argument in the past, I have never, ever, said anything like "you are a fucking idiot for believing that magic existed 2000 years ago," even though I have really, really wanted to just scream it in some people's faces. What I have said is things like: "I think that beliefs should be based on evidence; no belief in a deity that I have encountered in my life has had any credible evidence supporting it whatsoever. Therefore, I do not believe that any deities exist." Nonetheless, this has been met with vehement defensiveness and sometimes, downright vicious "counter-attacks" at my lack of moral foundation, etc, etc.|
    So my point is: I'm totally with you on not putting up with this nonsense anymore. Moderate theists just enable the extreme ones, and I would argue that any acceptance of the idea that we can believe things based on anything other than rationality is harmful. It is harmful because it allows us to think irrationally about any number of things, and irrational thinking is...obviously...stupid.
    Also, could you possibly link to that thing about disabling cognitive reasoning in early stages of development? I'm extremely curious about it. Finally, I also have a blog on this spot that might interest you. I haven't touched in forever, but a few of the articles are about silly things that theists and irrationalists think.

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    1. yeah, I'm going to try and find the blog. I found it on a facebook page, I'll reply here with the link when I do.

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    2. sorry it took me so long! here it is!
      http://antitheist-atheist.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/religion-spreads-by-process-known-as.html

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  5. Hmm, I thought you could get to my site by clicking my name but I guess not, with the way I published it. dannysweirdshit.blogspot.com is the link.

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  6. I've always like Sam Harris's take on the subject of religious moderates. It's a little different angle on the topic, but the same subject.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b55BnU5eh6g&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82YIluFmdbs

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  7. Shameless promotion...thanks for the support. Visit us on facebook United Atheists of America...http://www.facebook.com/WEAREUAA

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  8. Good stuff. Change the text color and background please. My eyes were burning after 2 minutes.

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